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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case
lets see
numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock
standard DS
vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp
drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp
ADS
ADS lv1 37.5k sp
ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS
so just to unlock the ship its
379,5k sp
with how i have my skills ive invested
789k sp
i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it
weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp
light weapon operation lv3 136k sp
swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp
swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most )
so just to unlock the basic swarm its
217k sp
with how i have my skills its \
838ksp
im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot
while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd
im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place
The Little Girl with the HMG
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m. When the ADS is being knocked around by swarms then it gets difficult to kill the swarmer, especially when there are lots of them.
so what you are saying is that you should not have use other team mates to kill said AVer? **** when i dont swarm and am on the ground if i see a blue tank or DS getting shot at i quickly run to get the Aver to take it out
The Little Girl with the HMG
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon. Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that. Tanks aren't in a good place! Because of CCP trying to down ADS swarms have become impossible to avoid! They accelerate to catch ADS, but tanks don't have ADS speed?! Swarms bend corners, avoid buildings, and slide ride right across terrain elevation change. There is no flight ceiling for us to run to. The redline is a lifetime away when your being swarmed by the whole enemy team! We have nowhere to hide, or take cover that is sufficient. Entering any city area is a death wish! I have a stockpile of cheap tanks built to help my team by dying fighting their enemies. I can lose 5 before the whole match is a loss economically. They're too weak to battle other tanks effectively, but will keep enemy tanks off our ground troops. Anything expensive gets shredded before you get a chance to take out enemy tanks by swarms built and improved to take out ADS' s. CCP has failed to balance AV/Vehicle. There are too many variables, and they can't figure it out while they're being ddos attacked, balancing their OP weapon problem, and trying to get more aurum out of us. Balancing AV/Vehicle has taken a back burner to literally everything.
typical tanker QQ i use cheap builds and cant figure out why 4 swarmers are ripping me to shreds.
The Little Girl with the HMG
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
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Posted - 2015.01.03 04:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case lets see numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock standard DS vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp ADS ADS lv1 37.5k sp ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS so just to unlock the ship its 379,5k sp with how i have my skills ive invested 789k sp i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp light weapon operation lv3 136k sp swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most ) so just to unlock the basic swarm its 217k sp with how i have my skills its \ 838ksp im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place You're sh!tting me right? Don't forget Shield Operation, Shield optimization, Small Turret Operation., Small Missiles, Small missile Optimization., Getting your Assault Dropships book to 3-5 & Caldari Assault Dropship to 3-5. This is what you need in order to make a competitive ADS. This is also minus the tweaks of Small Missile Reload, Ammo Vehicle Core Crid & Engine Core & Electronics.
then dont forget the suit, the suit modules, the core suit skills, weapon skills damage mod skills.
like i said the way i have my DS ADS set up at thoes levels i do fine i get shot down for hovering too long getting jumped by AV or just having a bad pilot day. i dont need to have my cal ads to level 5 all it does is increase rof which wont help with how bad the rof is and small missile operation isnt useful with how little PG CPU you gain back from it say what you want but like sir dukey said
"
If that one person is smart he should be able to keep tank at bay but not destroy it unless tank has stupid driver."
The Little Girl with the HMG
Sir Dukey once said
If that one person is smart he should be able to keep tank at bay bu
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
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Posted - 2015.01.03 18:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
typical tanker QQ i use cheap builds and cant figure out why 4 swarmers are ripping me to shreds.
You missed the point. I have 19 mil in tanks so I can fit whatever the h*ll I like on any tank available. Alas, unlike YOU I'm no roof camping scrub. I'm also no fool either. If the boys say they need back up on a point what better back up than a huge distraction with a blaster turret? However, in order to make a positive isk profit, since I don't rob my corp mates for isk, I need to keep the suicide tank as cheap as possible. I've taken on better tanks in them, and won some of those matches. Don't know if you've noticed, but sicas can kill madrugers and gunnlogis. The more I kill with cheap tanks, the more I make on the back end. Not pulling out 500k worth of tank so some loser whose been on a roof the whole match can feel good about himself. It's no QQ when you've went the extra step to do what's best for you, and your team. Most tankers hide in the redline with all that pricey tank doing what? I get down there where I'm actually a help to my team. If I get taken out by the likes of you, but the dropship drops off 6 mercs on bravo then mission accomplished! All you did was kill a sica. We won the match!
first off i dont roof camp if i see my own team camp roof tops i get into my drop ship and scrape them off. second read the second part of my sig even though it says tankers i think it also applies to pilots as well
If that one person is smart he should be able to keep tank at bay but not destroy it unless tank has stupid driver.
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
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Posted - 2015.01.03 19:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
killian178 wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that? Preach it brother
I can agree on some of this yes there are still rendering issues but to get the +75 i think that it has to be Amor damage but i could be worng not sure on that.
When i fly i can hear the swarms fire every time by the time they fire the 3rd im out of the area. as far as i know there is a 375- 400m swarm range
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
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Posted - 2015.01.03 20:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:neausea 1987 wrote:sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm. Yeah, pilots that could get 30+ kills a game... Funnily enough, a lot of those pilots could probably get 30+ kills on foot, without having the handicap of OP swarms, why should it be possible for most fits to get 30+ kills but not ADS. And for the argument of 'there are adv and pro swarms but only std vehicles, so the swarms should be much more powerful', this shouldn't be the case. If there are no adv or pro vehicles, then AV should be balanced around the STD vehicles. How would AV players like it if the only AV weapons were the STD variants, but there were adv and pro vehicles? They are balanced around the STD hulls. Thats not what I heard, various different people told me that they were balanced around STD, ADV and PRO vehicles
they used to be but not any more. thats when the swarms had 4 to a mag 6 missiles 400m lock on delt more damage
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
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Posted - 2015.01.04 05:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nonoriri ko wrote:Hardly anyone begins a match as Av. Av comes from supply depot after ads has been deployed.
The balanced fix would be to stop supply depots from letting you change fits. Only refill ammo. But who are we kidding, that would never happen.
It's just so easy for any of 16 people to run to depot, change to av, kill ads, then switch back.
i start games with AV depending on who is on the other side, also on ambush OMS i wait for a bit to see how it starts
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
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Posted - 2015.01.04 05:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:killian178 wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that? Preach it brother I can agree on some of this yes there are still rendering issues but to get the +75 i think that it has to be Amor damage but i could be worng not sure on that. When i fly i can hear the swarms fire every time by the time they fire the 3rd im out of the area. as far as i know there is a 375- 400m swarm range 1000 damage = 75 wp from what i've experienced. Proto = sure 75 on shields, adv = sure 75 on armor below 1000 shield. Basic = sure 75 on armor. And everyone needs to understand that the hate for dropships are so bad. I take a swarm resistant myron and just hover near an objective. You should have seen how many people ran to their supply depot and switched to av rather than defend their objective. A non combative dropship > winning the round in some cases. It's always so funny when someone sends me mail asking "what was your build? I had a lvl 5 min commando proto prof 5 swarms and 2 comp damage mods and i barely scratched you." ^ ive done my job, i distracted about 3 or 4 people and we secured the objective. Please please, don't be greedy people. Play with common sense and not a kid begging for wp cause people like me will arrive and ruin the entire game for you.
the hate for DS is bad indeed ill fly my myron and get shot at by Rifles, HMG, pistols. and its amusing.
just today i jumped on a DS and knifed the **** out of it but because i wanted to see if it would work.
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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